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Interesting Blogpost: Get Discipline, not Motivati



 
 
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MANDALORE
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10/9/12 11:59 A

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DOUGDC
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10/9/12 11:59 A

Yea, Eric, the robot piece seems related. A bit dismal, as I prefer not to think of myself as an automaton with no choices.

Jumping into the semantic discussion, with apologies in advance if I don't credit earlier posts with these ideas, discipline seems more of an ethical issue than motivation. Self-discipline means making the "right" choice between doing or not doing the thing in question. Kind of like doing what one "should" even if no one is looking. Someone looking is a motivator. Behaving "properly" is an ethical choice and a sign of good discipline.

Discipline often becomes habit. Brushing teeth, looking carefully before changing lanes. You might say Marines develop good discipline.

Ultimately, however, doesn't discipline depend on motivation? Marines may carry some behaviors and attitudes through life, but others may fade when the surrounding requirement fades and the culture of shared values fades after separation.

Motivation varies. It can come from anywhere, be very strong, be very temporary. Consistent ethical choices, doing what is right, are typically trained into each of us by an early motivator (parent?, clergy? military? author? philosophy?).

Perhaps, then, the personal decision is to view a particular set of behaviors, like maintaining fitness, portion control, or a zeal for learning, as an ethical choice between appropriate behavior and inappropriate behavior. Once that choice is made, no further motivation is necessary until the decision is revisited. A person could decide that fitness was not valuable and choose not to devote energy to it.

Very interesting topic. Many thanks, guys.



JADOMB
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10/9/12 11:36 A

That's pretty good Eric, being disciplined is much like being a robot. One needs to cut out the many human weaknesses in able to go above and beyond. Humans are weak, Robots are......well.....robotic. LOL



ERICWS
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10/9/12 10:11 A

www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2012/08/09/robots
/


Seemed to relate to this topic!



JADOMB
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9/27/12 10:43 P

OK, I read it, and he and I think alike.

This last couple weeks my discipline pushed me to finish my project. It had nothing to do with my driving force or motivation, it was discipline. I moved over 10 cu yds. of deco rock and dirt from my front yard to 200 ft down various stairs and such to my back yard( one wheel barrel load at a time). One day the temps got up to 109 degrees. Once they got over 103, I took a break and waited until it got back down to 103 before I got back out there to continue( I may be disciplined, but I'm not stupid). I did this by myself with NO motivators or cheering section, it just had to be done.

I was raised on a ranch/farm, did 4 years in the NAVY, retired from 28 years from Civil Service, been married to the same great lady for 28 years, and raised 2 great kids. ALL this helped to make me a disciplined person. Things just have to be done, so I do it. As the author says, one sometimes one just has to turn off the brain, and that is so true.

So if anyone reads any of my posts they should understand that while I do my best to motivate others, I let them know it is up to them to do the rest. That is where the discipline comes in. In the end I have no problem in giving them tough love and telling them my favorite saying for when times get tough. Which is: JUST SHUT UP AND SWEAT.



JADOMB
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9/27/12 10:24 P

I spoke to a similar topic on another thread and this is a great addition to that topic.

I haven't read the article and will do it after I write this to see if they think in the way I do or not.

I believe that most folks need a driving force(or Spark/reason) to get them started on something. From that point, motivation helps them stay on task or focused. So to me, they are different.

Discipline is more in line with motivation than a driving force since it continues on until completion and can weaken or strengthen along the way. A driving force can be but an idea or thought and it doesn't necessarily change, it just is. Again, just the Spark to get one started, yet is forever there to remember why one got started in the first place. Motivation can be from within or from external sources. It is that "rah rah" you speak of or those folks cheering you on as you do the deed.

But Discipline is much deeper and totally internal. One can NOT make a person have discipline, but they can motivate that person. A person CAN be taught or trained to have discipline, but it is not a simple task. A person with true discipline doesn't even need motivation. Because it comes from so deep within, they will do it anyway.

A person with discipline doesn't even need a driving force to get started, because they just DO IT. It is a trained mechanism that pushes one well beyond their perceived limits. SEAL team members and the like understand this. They are told to do something and even if they don't like it, are not driven to do it or motivated to do it, they do it anyway. They are disciplined to perform.

So that is my take on this, now I'll go read the article. ;-)



PATTERD707
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9/15/12 10:56 A

Great!

I think I'm understanding better now.

I have also noticed that people go into the health/fitness journey with lots of rah-rah, as you say, and they underestimate how much work it's going to be. Furthermore, they don't prepare themselves to be disciplined and push themselves when everything hurts.

Yep, sounds right. Thanks for clarifying.

Have a great weekend! Loving the guys lounge.



ERICWS
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9/15/12 9:30 A

I like to disagree! I've noticed that others on here don't like to disagree or be debated, so I like that you and nhoyle, BMB, etc., like to talk straight! I try to do the same, and respect and appreciate your candor. Very cool- we can all learn and expand our points of view.

I hear what you are saying. If I understand you correctly, you suggest that you cannot have a self-discipline without an underlying motivation. I don't disagree with that- and I suggest that our similar underlying motivation is fitness and health. We have different personal views of what that means to us, but we all are here, and thus we all want that for ourselves or we wouldn't be here.

But what I see on places like this is use of the term "motivation" as "rah rah, you go girl/boy" kind of stuff, and that's fine. But that isn't enough in my opinion to last for the long haul. The self-discipline is what must kick in to take the effort beyond the initial "excitement" phase.

We're probably going in circles a bit, but I like the discussion! Cheers- have a great weekend!



PATTERD707
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9/14/12 8:06 P

Believe me, it's OK to disagree here.

We can't, however, be saying the same thing. If we were, then we'd actually be SAYING the same thing ;)

I agree that it's about definitions.

You are saying that motivation is congruent with goals. I've always used the word differently. In Websters, it says:

1. The act or process of motivating, or
2. Something that motivates; an inducement or incentive.

This isn't talking about the goal itself (a 10K), but the feelings behind why you do it.

Feelings don't HAVE to be weak, like promises that are easily broken.

Feelings can be STRONG, like the desire to BE disciplined.

Thanks again for the invigorating conversation.

If you feel like we're just rehashing, feel free to make a final stab (or anyone else, for that matter), and we can move onto other subjects.

I do NOT feel like I need to have the last word, nor do you seem that way, but I don't think (from your responses) that you are quite grasping my POV. If I'm wrong on that, I definitely apologize.



ERICWS
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9/14/12 12:05 P

I think we are all saying the same thing, just using our own personal terminology to describe it.

We all share the same goal: personal health and fitness, as we define it for ourselves.

Motivators can vary by person, as well- short term for me this summer was to run a 15k and complete a 4-race 5k series in my area, so I organized my workouts around doing my best to complete those races.

In my take, discipline is not personal, and I agree with nhoyle's take as I understand it: it is the ability to get something done, regardless of whether you feel like it or have a goal in mind.



NHOYLE1
Posts: 351
9/14/12 10:12 A

I've never been able to use a goal as a motivation. There has almost always had to be something behind that to push me. Goals are just too far away for me.

Discipline has always been a different category for me. It is sticking to a scheduled workout simply because that is my scheduled workout.




PATTERD707
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9/13/12 2:53 P

OK, think I understand you better now.

By motivation, you mean goal (e.g. run a 10K in x months).

I'm using motivation as the reason for completing a goal. We all have reasons, even if they're not stated.

Thanks for clarifying.



ERICWS
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9/13/12 9:51 A

Back to this one- no specific motivations on the short-term horizon for me other than a 5k in 10 days, but I'll be "running" that with my kids so no likely PR's on the way when we'll be walking/running the 5k for them to enjoy. I was pretty tired this morning when the alarm went off at 5:45. I had no desire to put on the sneakers and go for the 3-mile run i had scheduled for today.

I forced myself to do it, ended up going 3.5 miles and having a very good run on a beautiful late summer morning.

Overall motivation was there, i guess: long-term health/fitness objective. But I've over the last 2 years become so accustomed to running 3 or 4 times per week, and/or some basic ST stuff, that the "habit" overcame the urge to sit on my rear end and have a second cup of coffee while reading the newspaper/watching TV.

So, did discipline carry the day? I think it did for me today, as I really had no desire to get moving. I thought about this thread after i was done, and thought I'd comment.....



PATTERD707
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9/7/12 5:43 P

I guess it depends on what you mean by discipline. It seems like you're defining it as: "discipline is when you just do it (sorry to borrow Nike's catch phrase), forcing yourself to dig deep, even if you don't feel like it."

I agree that sometimes you have to do things that you don't feel like doing. At the same time, I don't believe any of us does anything just for that reason. Even the guy in the blog got clear on his motivation (the $500 thing).

I don't believe that discipline necessarily is a hard line thing and motivation is softer and easier to break. To stick with things requires discipline (a decision to work at something), but I believe that discipline must be motivated by something (even if it's the decision to not let yourself down or give up or be weak). I don't see how they are divided.
BTW, this is a great discussion. Thanks for being part of it and teaching me though it.






ERICWS
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9/7/12 4:36 P

Sometimes maybe no motivation is needed, but if you have the self-discipline to do something, then you get the results, anyways.

If you're disciplined enough, then you just do it.



NHOYLE1
Posts: 351
9/7/12 2:38 P

I think the mental change from motivation to discipline could be a double edged sword. I think it could be useful for those times that you just don't want to put the work in. It is easier to say to yourself "I am just not feeling motivated today" than "I just don't have the discipline" The problem is that if you don't manage to do it it sets you up to have now made a value judgment about yourself which could hurt your overall prospects.

I think for getting back on the workout wagon after a missed day or a missed couple of days, a motivation based mindset may be better.



ERICWS
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9/7/12 12:23 P

True, and great thought, PatterD. You need both.

But motivations can and do change. The discipline to act on the motivations by getting up and doing is the constant. That's my take, at least. And I don't see enough about self-discipline on sites of this nature. Usually the motivation is the topic. I like this- it's a spin on the point of view.



PATTERD707
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9/7/12 11:51 A

Totally get the part about "excuses suck," but at the same time I think it's an issue of semantics.

For example, I could say "discipline is fleeting."

Also, he talks about "deciding if it's worth it." Isn't that an issue of what motivates you. In his case, it was not wanting to pay the $500 to his arch nemesis.

Either way, I think it's helpful to remember that they are both in play (both motivation and the discipline to keep reminding yourself of what's motivating you).



WASCHULL1
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9/7/12 11:15 A

I LIKE IT! Says it all.



LOVEXAVIE
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9/7/12 10:52 A

Loved it, bookmarked it, will use it a LOT!


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ERICWS
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9/7/12 9:50 A

That is an awesome find. Thanks.





NHOYLE1
Posts: 351
9/7/12 9:06 A

http://joelrunyon.com/two3/get-disciplined
-not-motivated



 
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