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BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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8/3/12 9:30 A

Yes. Interval training is a concept, not a method. Whatever you can do to get your heart rate up to 85-90% MHR for a period, then rest is good. Running, biking, jumping rope, hill sprints, whatever. Has to be sufficiently challenging to spike the heart rate up to that level though.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
8/3/12 9:25 A

what is that KJ? Is that where you run as fast as you can until you give out of breath and then walk? Can you do the same on a recumbent bike? Bike really fast and then go back to normal speed?

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8/2/12 6:03 P

KJ, have you ever heard of widow makers?

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
8/2/12 4:57 P

I'm gonna be getting back into cardio soon and before, wehn I lost a lot of weight I use to do H.I.I.T. (High Intensity Interval Training). That not only burns a lot of calories but keeps burning them for up to 2 hours afterwards.

On the local track I would sprint the straight sides and the recover walk around the bends. I did this for half an hour, three times a week.

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8/1/12 1:25 P

That seems sound to me.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
8/1/12 12:49 P

thanks Bill. So I guess for someone like me just starting to build muscle, I should do cardio and ST, but after 6 months or so when I have built some muscle, I can lighten up a bit on cardio. Thanks.

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8/1/12 10:54 A

That's a tough question because the science is still a bit murky. The overall theory is that muscle is more metabolically active, so a more muscular person burns more fat at rest than someone who does cardio all the time. So during the 30 minutes, the calorie burn is greater with cardio (typically), but the other 23.5 hours a day, you're burning more fat since your BMR is raised as you become more muscular.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
8/1/12 10:36 A

thanks Bill. I get the picture, but what about burning calories? Which burns more? Cardio or maximum load on ST?

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8/1/12 10:10 A

Two things are at play. Strength training is pretty new, so it's probably exhausting because of that alone. The second thing is increasing your work load. The trick is keeping strength training difficult by increasing your load. The big difference between cardio and ST is that it is difficult to load cardio. You can increase distance and/or speed, but beyond that, it's dangerous to weight cardio. So to achieve progression, I put strength training far above cardio. I've largely ditched cardio other than my sporting activities and the occasional race. But I do not cardio "training".

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
8/1/12 9:57 A

great! Thanks KJ. You know something? When I do the dumbbell exercises and pull ups, I'm more exhausted than when I do cardio. Does that make sense? I mean, 30 min on the recumbent bike at 12MPH is less exhausting than 5 minutes of dumbbell exercises! Which one do ya'll think is better to do in terms of fat loss?

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/31/12 5:57 P

Personally, I'd suggest having a basic set of db's 5-10-15-20-25 (you can add others later like 3-8-12.5-17.5).

Remember, unless you're taking measures to get MASS you'll just be tones no matter how much weight you lift.

Also, if you haven't already done this Amy check out my friend's list for nancyAnne55, she's awesome in the feild of women's weightlifting. She also has an fb page called Better Body https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/1643755
26966542/


TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/31/12 12:04 P

great! Thanks! I think I'll trade my 10 pounds in for 20 pounders. But you know what? I was sampling them at walmart, and I can do 15 reps of the 15 pounders, but only about 6 of the 20 pounders. There is no inbetween, is there? I didn't see any.

Edited by: TURTLESDOVE at: 7/31/2012 (12:08)
BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/31/12 11:52 A

Yes. The key is to continue increasing weight, so if you can do 15 and your target reps are 10, you need to increase weight.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/31/12 11:14 A

you guys, I found a site called dumbbellexercises.com. It has a list of the top 10 dumbbell exercises and it shows an illustration. I love it. I bought me a 15 pound dumbbell used from a sports store in my area. I can do about 15 until I tire. Should I get a 20 pound? I was told to get enough weight so that I can only do 10 reps. Is this correct?

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/20/12 12:52 P

HA HA!! Lunch Lady arms! That's a good one KJ. I don't have 15 to 20 pound dumbells, only 10pounds. I'm gonna practice lifting my car, how's that? No serious, I'm not kidding.

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7/20/12 12:34 P

All I heard was big boobs.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/20/12 12:33 P

I have noticed that some folks use the word "toned" to mean no weights lifted heavier than 10lb dumbells.

At that rate (very light to light weights) the results (the results of flab turned to firm) will be slow to come if at all.

It took me a while to convince my gf to go heavier than the max of 7.5 pound DBs she was using for some of her core exercises. She was curling 5 pounds DBs and getting no results. Now she can do 15 to 17.5 and results are paying off. She wants to go heavier. Her once flabby LUNCH-LADY arms are starting to look slender with shape. I kid her about where in the hell are her buldging man-mucles she thought she'd get going heavier than 10 pounds, LOL! She's 50 and only started using weights about 3 years ago. Her first 2 years resulted in not very much due to low weights, but these past 6 months she is looking much more shapely (toned) and fit.

lastly, she was afraid to go into the free weights side of the gym with all of those men.......she didn't want to look stupid. I told her that if I wasn't there and she had a question about an exercise she should either 1.) skip and do spomething else comparable or 2.) ask one of those men (I told her the uglier men were better to ask, lol).

Now, she struts right on over there and uses free weights but I just HATE it when she does over head tricep extensions because that's not the only things that extend when she reaches up over and behind her head......Gawd my woman has big boobs!
( . Y . )

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/20/12 12:01 P

There is no such thing as "toned". Or maybe you mean "toned" like her?

mollygalbraith.com/wp-content/uploads/2011
/03/Molly-185-paused-squat.jpg


The recipe is heavy lifting.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/20/12 11:58 A

yeah, I just want to get toned, not muscular. I don't even have to look as good as that pic. I just want to turn the flab into firm. I've seen skinny people with flab on them, and I've even seen big people that looked firm.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/20/12 9:52 A

Ya know, Billy, I coulda just said that instead of rambling....
LOL!

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/20/12 9:20 A

Just remember this, gaining muscle is a VERY deliberate and calculated task. No one wakes up one morning and says "sh1t!!!! Where did I get these huge muscular f'in arms and legs!"

Gaining muscle for most of us means REPLACING fat. You don't want to look like a deflated version of yourself.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/20/12 9:09 A

oh ok, great thanks! I thought it was probably STEROIDS. That woman in your pic looks great. She looks like a woman, not a man.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/19/12 10:35 P

The women that look like are not lifting to lose fat or even for casual fitness, they are taking STEROIDS, they HAVE to or they won't get those kind of gains. Also, they eat so CLEAN that it's nigh impossible to do if you're a normal family person. Those folks are also gym rats, again, they are NOT casual, they SERIOUS about lifting and making mass gains and most times it doesn't work because they just don't have the genes to get ripped.

Take a look at my link, that's Dana Linn bailey, a bodybuilder and she's one of the best in the country and she isn't even CLOSE to looking manly.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/19/12 4:11 P

ok ok KJ, then answer me this. What do those women do to look like Arnold. You know which ones I'm talking about. They have man bodies and no BOOBS! LOL!

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/19/12 3:43 P

My many years here on SP I have noticed this about women specificallyin matters concerning weightlifting; a mis-understanding that somehow by lifting weights they would get super ripped and all man-like muscles.

ROFLMFAO!

For women, weight training does NOT equate to man muscles (I know you don't think that TD, I'm just sayin).

That said, there ain't NOTHING wrong with a woman with muscles!
4.bp.blogspot.com/-rvZ1_qWUZDs/TWVEmM6YIrI
/AAAAAAAADuc/9PA2MzUn9Cc/s1600/Dana+li
nn+Bailey+2.jpg


TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/19/12 3:31 P

I know what you mean. My sister weighed about 250 pounds before going on the WW diet. She lost a lot of weight, but she looked a heck of a lot better before she lost. She looked sick and unhealthy. Like KS said, she probably went about it all wrong. I'm learning a lot from you guys about nutrition and such. I never realized that about the strength training and building muscle. I just automatically assumed that when you lose weight, it's from fat. Boy was I wrong!

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/19/12 2:50 P

My friends husband got to me just in time and guided me to weightlifting before I got that deflated bag look

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/19/12 2:30 P

@KS, sounds like we went down similar paths. I lost too much weight through diet and cardio, started trying to build it back with isolation type crap and ended up progressing rather nicely over the last year with core lifts. I follow Starting Strength more or less. I workout about 2 days a week. I squat, bench, dead lift, standing overhead press as my "core". I also do hang cleans and working my way to power cleans, but largely stick with the core. I rarely do isolation moves unless a core lift is stuck.

Just keep on progressing with the core lifts. When you stop progressing, time to do some troubleshooting and/or some isolation movements to facilitate forward motion.

I think frequency of lifts is a bit individualized. I find I do better at 2 days a week, some might do better with 3 or 4, some might do better with 1.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/19/12 1:57 P

yes it did, perfectly. Thanks KS. So, slow and steady wins the race, eh?

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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7/19/12 1:51 P

@Turtle- Mainly becuase they lost the weight too quickly. The body wasn't getting enough energy from calories so instead (or along with) turning to fat as fuel, it also broke up the proteins in muscle. Now everyone knows that you lose strength if you lose weight too quickly, but the little muscles are affected too. This leads to the drooping and such. Also, eating too few calories leads to not getting enough nutrients as well. Did that answer your question?

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/19/12 1:40 P

@Everybody, I think this relates to the same subject as the original poster, I just didn't want to start a new one. Have you ever seen people who lose a lot of weight, and they look worse. I mean, their face looks haggard and they look sickly. Why is that, I wonder?

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/19/12 11:38 A

@KS: If you're not able to have a spotter then the 3x5 lifting plan may not be enough. I had to make adjust ments to my lifts and here's what I do now and it's working good for me:

Mon (chest & triceps)
Bench 5sets/8reps with around a 10% increase of weights per set
Inclinded or flat Flyes 5sets/10reps five lb increase each set
Declined or inclined bench 5sets/10reps static weight (about half of my 1 rep max for flat bench)
Close Grip Bench 5sets/10reps about 33% of my 1 rep max of flat bench)
Lying triceps 2 arm extensions 5sets/10reps 2 static sets then five lb increase for 2 more static sets then last set for another five lb increase

Wedensday (back & biceps)
Deadlift 5sets/8reps with around a 10% increase of weights per set
Bent-Over Barbell Rows 5sets/10reps five lb increase each set
Shrugs 5sets/10reps static weight (85% to equal to my 1 rep max for flat bench)
EZ bar Curls 5sets/10reps about 30% of my 1 rep max of flat bench)
Alternating DB Curls 5sets/10reps 2 static sets then five lb increase for 2 more static sets then last set for another five lb increase

Friday (Shoulders)
BB Press 5sets/8reps with a five pound increase per set (maxing around 55% of my flat bench 1 rep max)
Inclined BB Raise 5sets/10reps with a five pound increase per set (maxing around 30% of my flat bench 1 rep max)
Leaning DB Lat Raises 5sets/10reps with a five pound increase per set (maxing around 15% of my flat bench 1 rep max)
Inclined Reverse Flyes 5sets/10reps with a five pound increase per set (maxing around 20% of my flat bench 1 rep max)
Upright DB Rows 5sets/10reps with a five pound increase per set (maxing around 20% of my flat bench 1 rep max)

Weekend (Sat or Sun) Legs
Regular Squats starting same as flat bench 5sets/8reps with around a 10% increase of weights per set
Leg Curls 5sets/10 reps
Leg Extensions 5sets/10reps
Calf Raises 5sets/20reps

All core exercises have a 2 min rest between sets, all others have a 1 min rest between sets and a 3 min rest between each exercise.

I am missing abs and cardio. Also, The above I change up every couple of weeks except for the core exercises (bench, deadlift, squats, press), they stay the same but with increased weight each week.

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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7/19/12 10:48 A

Hey Bill, basically I'm just curious to get someone else's opinion on my lifting plan. I used to do about 7-8 exercises when I went to the gym. Things like Bench, Squat, deadlift, I would do 3x5, and then after the core lifts I'd be doing more isolation type stuff like curls, dips, shoulder lat raises with 3x10.

I was wondering about switching it to just doing the core lifts, and focusing on them? I'd love to go super heavy and burnout everytime with 3x5, but I don't have a buddy to lift with. With no spotter I often have to save a rep in the bank so that I don't get stuck under the bar. Right now my plan is looking like

Tues- Bench 3x5, Squat 3x5, Row 3x5
Thurs- Military Press 3x5, Deadlift 3x3, Pull/chin ups 3x10
Sat- Incline bench 3x5, Clean 5x3, Step-ups 3x8

I based it off the begining strength, 5x5, and other lifting plans like those. I'm just wondering if its enough? 3 lifts a day, even going super hard, doesn't seem like enough. I was thinking of doing these 3, and then doing a little ab work and 1-2 supplemental lifts afterword. What do you think? It's just that so many plans out there call for this 3 lifts a day thing and that just seems like too little to me.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/19/12 10:47 A

Didn't read the whole thread (sorry) but are we talking about muscle gain while losing fat? or just losing fat without losing muscle?

Muscle gain (and I mean noticeable gains) requires food and lots of it. Yes, it has to be counted (macro nutrients as well) but in order for the body to sustain the punishment of making those kinds of gains (heavy weights) a certain amount of fat is gonna have to come with it.

THEN, when your muscle gain is met, you do what they call "cutting" and yes, you'll lose some of your gains, but done repeated times (correctly) over time you'll be gaining more muscle mass while looking thin and healthy.

For losing fat but not really looking for mass gains (just fat turned to muscle) then I suggest circuit training:
Large Muscles first:
Chest, Back, Legs, Shoulders
then smaller ones:
biceps, triceps, calves, abs
CARDIO everyday! At least 30 min/day

8 exercises 3-4 times a week (change them up every couple of weeks), 3 sets of 20 reps :30 rest between sets and about a minute rest between exercisesof light to moderate weights.

This:
emoticon

or this:
emoticon

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/19/12 10:13 A

ok, thanks. No pain, no gain, right? I can get a complete set of weights at wal-mart for about 50 dollars. I'll try to put that in my budget. My step son says I should do alot of training with my legs, as they are the biggest muscles. Don't know what he meant by that.

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/18/12 5:04 P

It's supposed to be difficult. Exercise should never get easier. The point is to produce enough stress to disrupt homeostasis. Doing the same thing over and over with the same weight/reps/intensity does nothing.

Increase reps or increase weight. Aim to do that nearly every workout and you're doing good things.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/18/12 4:59 P

ok thanks. I have a chin up/iron gym that I find very difficult to do. I'll have to practice. Thanks

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/18/12 4:44 P

Not really effective. 50 reps is cardio. You want to be to do about 5-10 before you fail and cannot do any more reps.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/18/12 4:35 P

wow thanks Bill! I have some 10 pound dumbbells and I'm a gonna start with those. I have a Suzanne Sommers thigh master, too, which I use. Man, after 50 times squeezing my thighs together, I feel the burn.

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/18/12 4:23 P

I say cardio is optional. Diet to lose weight, lift heavy to keep muscle. Cardio is optional, but don't feel like you need to hit the treadmill just because. Lifting is NOT optional.

KYLAR_STERN - sure, would be happy to give it a look. You may already know that I'm not a trainer or dietitian. I'm just a dude. heh.

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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7/18/12 4:15 P

Hey Bill, wondering if I could run my diet/workout plan by you for some feedback. I've seen your posts around this site and agree with the vast majority of things you say, especially the few things you view wrong with Spark's mentality. I'm down to about where I want my weight and am competing in some Brazilian Jiu Jitsu tournaments coming up so managing my weight for weight classes is new to me. I've got a competition in 2 1/2 weeks and I'll be fighting at 160, but the next one has different weight classes so I'll be looking to build some muscle by that one, rather than moving down 8 pounds.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/18/12 3:48 P

thanks you guys! Read the article Bill. I'm not at maintenance level yet,though, so I need both cardio and strength training, right?

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/18/12 3:11 P

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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7/18/12 2:03 P

Cutting out 500 calories a day is pretty standard for losing a pound a week. For women most people say to go for 3 sets, 10 reps on the weight. I just switched my routine back to how I used to do it when I was my strongest (and heaviest) last summer with 3x5 and going really heavy. Harder to do without a spotter tho.

And the only things I drink are water and about 2 glasses of skim milk a day (breakfast and dinner, sometimes with my protein on lifting days). Ocassionaly I'll have a cup of black coffee when I absolutely need it to stay awake at work. I don't drink any soda or gatorade or anything like that. Not even 100% juice anymore becuase for the calories, I get more enjoyment out of eating the actual fruit.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/18/12 1:42 P

Bill, my step son is visiting from Kentucky. He used to be a personal trainer and he has begun to give me tips on cardio and weight training. He says to do cardio and weight training about 3 times per week. He said for me to use the amount of weight that it takes for me to do 10 reps at a time and build up from that. He also said in terms of nutrition, I should aim to eat nutritious foods, but to cut out 500 calories per day. Maybe once per week or so to eat a candy bar or whatever i'm in the mood for. He said to cut out all liquids except for water. What is your intake on that? Other guys?

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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6/25/12 1:32 P

Ya, don't get me wrong boys, I loves me some running. Got lots of races this year, but it's firmly in the "because it's fun" category. Not going out there to "blast fat". Or having the "I run so I can drink beer" type of mentality.

I'm glad you did bring up this article. I made the mistake of an extreme deficit and stupid amounts of cardio. Lost a bunch of muscle as a result. Have spent over a year trying to put it back. The slow go seems to be because I was still doing excessive cardio. I've lightened up considerably over the last few months and the strength gains have been great.

If it saves someone from my stupid mistakes, that's a big win. Cannot stress enough big protein, big lifts.

ERICWS SparkPoints: (8,307)
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6/25/12 1:19 P

I'll respectfully concur and write a concurring opionion: if you like to do cardio, you should doit. I know Sarge and Bill have pointed out why cardio may not be the optimum fat blaster method, but I like running, and subscribe to the maxim, do what i enjoy and I'll keep at it!
Cheers!

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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6/25/12 1:06 P

Yep, I agree with you sir. They had some good suggestions and thought I'd share. I ditched the massive number of meals as well. Cardio isn't strictly neccesary for fat loss, but I like going for a 3 mile run 2-3 times a week. Gets me in better cardio shape and helps burn some more fat while letting me eat a few more carbs without the guilt.

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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6/25/12 12:47 P

They almost have it. The 5-7 meals is garbage, but the protein requirements are pretty good. For the sake of simplicity, for protein you can probably just get 1g/pound and be close enough. It's really simple though ... lift HEAVY, eat protein. That's it.

I would also argue that the cardio is completely unnecessary for fat loss. Get the fat loss from your diet, not cardio.

Edited by: BREWMASTERBILL at: 6/25/2012 (12:48)
KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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6/25/12 11:06 A

So I actually found a good article about this here

www.bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek88.
htm


Its got three viewpoints of how to lose fat without losing muscle mass as well. I think the second guy is the best, but the best part about all three is you can make your own interpretation. And none of them are the ones going around saying that you can build muscle while losing weight (2nd guy does hint at it), or saying to lose 3-4 pounds per week. Pretty down to earth and knowledgeable lifters giving their opinion. Just thought I'd share

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